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NEGOTIATOR, INTERVIEWER, LISTENER
Interview with Sen. George Mitchell
By Dick Carozza
U.S. senior Congressional aides are seldom seen or heard, but still they know everything that goes on in the nation's capital. So back when George Mitchell was a senator from Maine, they couldn't be ignored when they named him "the most respected member" of the Senate for six consecutive years.
That respect - earned from his honed ability to mediate disparate opinions - was the reason he was able to negotiate the historic 1998 "Good Friday Agreement" that ended decades of conflict in Northern Ireland. It was also the reason he was asked to be the chairman of a special commission investigating allegations of impropriety in the bidding process for the Olympic Games, the chairman of an international fact-finding committee on Middle East violence and, most recently, the head of an investigation into the illegal use of steroids and other performance-enhancing substances by Major League Baseball players.
Sen. Mitchell ended his successful 15-year tenure in the Senate as majority leader in 1995, but his work continues as he concentrates on using his negotiation, interviewing, and, probably most importantly, listening skills to resolve conflict.
"Genuine listening is hard to do," Sen. Mitchell said. "In social or other casual conversations, many people focus on their own words or thoughts. I try to focus by telling myself that I'll have to write a summary of the discussion once it's over. Frequently, I do write such summaries, even when I don't have to do, just to keep up my listening skills."
He had to marshal all of those skills during the grueling and complicated Northern Ireland peace negotiations. After the peace talks were finished, Ulster Unionist talks team member Sir Reg Empey told the BBC that Sen. Mitchell had to endure much to reach the final agreement. "I think that anybody who knows anything about the hours he has had to sit and spend listening to us squabbling and arguing must give him good credit," Empey said.
Sen. Mitchell knows that listening leads to valuable interviews and substantive negotiations - vital strengths for fraud examiners. He will share his techniques and his observations on the Middle East, Northern Ireland, the Olympics, and Major League Baseball in his keynote address at the 19th Annual ACFE Fraud Conference & Exhibition, July 13 - 18 in Boston.
Sen. Mitchell spoke to Fraud Magazine from his office in Washington, D.C.
Though the investigations you've conducted are disparate, is there a common denominator in your techniques?
An important attribute for an investigator is to have an open and inquiring mind that questions every assumption, especially those based on "That's the way we've always done it."
How are you able to move an interviewee to the point that he or she is comfortable with you and your questions?
There is no one method for making an interviewee comfortable. How I proceed is highly dependent on the circumstances. Generally, I try to employ a great deal of patience and willingness to listen to whatever is said, however untrue or disagreeable.
As chairman of the peace negotiations in Northern Ireland, the governments of Ireland and the United Kingdom agreed to a historic accord, the Belfast Peace Agreement, in 1998. You must have taken great satisfaction in your efforts. How were you able to bring both sides together to agree on such disparate issues?
I'll discuss this in more detail on July 14, but for now I'll say that it's important in conflict resolution to create a context in which each side can in fact and in perception make its case and have its point of view heard; in other words, listening is critical.
We live in a frenetic society bound up with self-interest. How does an interviewer learn "active listening"? I know you want to save most of your points for the Annual Conference, but can you share one thought on how you can move two differing sides to resolution that still involve concessions?
Genuine listening is hard to do. In social or other casual conversations, many people focus on their own words or thoughts. I try to focus by telling myself that I'll have to write a summary of the discussion once it's over. Frequently, I do write such summaries, even when I don't have to do, just to keep up my listening skills.
Since 2002, you have been a Senior Fellow and Senior Research Scholar at the Columbia University Center for International Conflict Resolution, at which you work in conflict resolution. How can fraud examiners learn from your negotiation techniques?
Each conflict is different, so each negotiation must be different. But there are some principles that apply generally, and I'll describe some of them on July 14.
Can you share just one of those principles?
The first and most important principle is to be patient and let every participant have his or her say. If people feel they haven't had a chance to express their thoughts, they are much less likely to listen to the views of others.
Why did you accept the request of Major League Baseball's commissioner to investigate the illegal use of steroids and other performance-enhancing substances by MLB players? What was your greatest challenge in the investigation?
I accepted the assignment because I like baseball and because I believe that the commissioner was serious in trying to deal with what is an important issue in all sports.
In a sense, the baseball players' illegal drug use is a fraud perpetrated on team owners, fellow players, and the public. Who loses most here?
Among the victims are the majority of players who play by the rules. They're faced with the awful choice of playing at a competitive disadvantage or becoming illegal users themselves. No one should have to make that choice.
You had no subpoena power so in the end you only were able to talk to two current MLB players. (You were able to conduct more than 700 interviews with former players, current or former club officials, managers, coaches, team physicians, and others.) Did you sometimes feel you had your hands tied in the investigation? Why did your investigation focus on the players rather than the teams?
The absence of subpoena power meant that the investigation took a lot longer than I'd hoped. Although most current players refused to talk with me, many former players and a large number of club employees did.
Illegal steroids and performance-enhancing drugs in Major League Baseball (as well as in many sports programs) seem to have been prevalent and incipient for many years. Why is it important that MLB heeds your recommendations? Some say that it's all much ado about nothing, but do you believe the problem has broader implications?
Recent estimates of steroid use by high school age Americans range from 2 percent to 6 percent. Even the lower figure means that hundreds of thousands of our youngsters are endangering their health and their future. Every American, not just baseball fans, should be shocked into action by that disturbing truth.
Your 1999 U.S. Olympic Committee (USOC) special commission report on impropriety and alleged bribes in the selection process of the 2002 Winter Games included several nonbinding recommendations for both the USOC and the International Olympic Committee (IOC). You called on President Clinton to declare the IOC a public international organization, and thus make bribing its officials punishable under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. Have you seen any of your recommendations adopted in either committee?
Most of our recommendations were adopted by the U.S. Olympic Committee and by the International Olympic Committee.
Since the 1980s, ACFE Chairman and Founder Joseph T. Wells has preached fraud detection and deterrence. In the early years, few heeded his message. But, of course, the Enron and WorldCom scandals, and the ensuing Sarbanes-Oxley Act, have compelled corporate America to impose internal controls. But legislation can't control character. Do we need massive financial frauds every 10 years in the United States (witness the Savings and Loan scandal in the 1980s and '90s and the current subprime fiasco) to jolt businesses and remind them of basic fraud examination principles?
Unfortunately, complacency is a reality in life. These recurring scandals remind us of the need for continual vigilance in combating fraud and abuse.
What advice would you give fraud examiners who are working to detect and deter fraud in corporate, governmental, and nonprofit entities?
Don't ever be intimidated or deterred. Approach every examination with an open and inquiring mind.
You've worn many hats in your career. Two well-worn ones seem to be "negotiator" and "investigator." Which do you enjoy the most and why?
I enjoy them both. In my experience both skills have been necessary.
You seem to have packed at least two lives of activity into one. What's your secret for being able to do so much?
My mother was an immigrant, my father was the orphan son of immigrants. They had no education; my father was a janitor, and my mother worked the night shift in a textile mill. They taught me that hard work, a good education, and the good fortune to have been an American would produce success in life.
But many parents teach these principles to their children. What spurred you to excel and pack so much good activity into your life?
It was a combination of a desire to excel and a fear of failure.
What are your future plans in your "retirement"?
Keep working.
Can you elaborate? Will you do some more writing?
I've written four books and I plan to write at least one more. I also will devote more time to charitable activities, especially the scholarship fund to help needy students to go on to college, which I created when I left the Senate.
SEN. MITCHELL'S CAREER DRIVEN BY MEDIATION SKILLS
Sen. George J. Mitchell entered the U.S. Senate in 1980 when he was appointed to complete the unexpired term of Sen. Edmund S. Muskie, who resigned to become secretary of state. Before the 1982 election, Sen. Mitchell trailed in opinion polls by 36 points. His come-from-behind victory gave him 61 percent of the votes cast. Sen. Mitchell went on to a successful career in the Senate that spanned 14 years.
In 1988, he was reelected with 81 percent of the vote, the largest margin in Maine history. In January 1989, he became Senate majority leader. He held that position until he left the Senate in 1995.
In 1996, the governments of the United Kingdom and Ireland asked Sen. Mitchell to chair the peace negotiations in Northern Ireland. The two-year negotiations resulted in a historic accord that ended decades of conflict. In May 1998, the agreement was overwhelmingly endorsed by voters in Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. He has received numerous awards and honors recognizing his service in the peace talks including the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian honor the U.S. government can give; the Philadelphia Liberty Medal; the Truman Institute Peace Prize; the German (Hesse) Peace Prize; and the United Nations (UNESCO) Peace Prize. He was also nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.
While in the Senate, Sen. Mitchell served on the Finance, Veterans Affairs, and Environment and Public Works committees. He led the 1990 reauthorization of the Clean Air Act including new controls on acid rain toxins. He was the author of the first national oil spill prevention and cleanup law. Sen. Mitchell led the Senate to passage of the nation's first child care bill and was principal author of the low-income housing tax credit program. He was instrumental in the passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act, landmark legislation extending civil rights protections to the disabled. Sen. Mitchell's efforts led to the passage of a higher education bill that expanded opportunities for millions of Americans. He was a leader in opening markets to trade and led the Senate to ratification of the North American Free Trade Agreement and the creation of the World Trade Organization.
Sen. Mitchell was stationed in Berlin, Germany, as an officer in the U.S. Army Counter-Intelligence Corps from 1954 to 1956. From 1960 to 1962, he was a trial lawyer in the Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. From 1962 to 1965, he served as executive assistant to Sen. Muskie. In 1965, he returned to Maine where he engaged in the private practice of law in Portland until 1977. He was then appointed U.S. attorney for Maine, a position he held until 1979, when he was appointed U.S. district judge for Maine. He resigned that position in 1980 to accept his Senate appointment.
After leaving the Senate, Sen. Mitchell joined the law firm Verner, Liipfert, Bernhard, McPherson and Hand, joining DLA Piper US in 2003 along with many other members of that firm. He served as chairman of the board of The Walt Disney Company. He is also chancellor of The Queen's University of Northern Ireland. He served as chairman of the International Crisis Group, a nonprofit organization dedicated to the prevention of crises in international affairs; as chairman of the Special Commission, investigating allegations of impropriety in the bidding process for the Olympic Games; and as chairman of the National Health Care Commission. Working on a pro bono basis, Sen. Mitchell was the independent overseer of the American Red Cross Liberty Disaster Relief Fund, an organization formed to help victims of the 9/11 attacks.
At the request of President Bill Clinton and Israeli and Palestinian leaders, Sen. Mitchell served as chairman of an international fact-finding committee on violence in the Middle East. The committee's recommendation, widely known as The Mitchell Report, was endorsed by the Bush Administration, the European Union, and many other governments.
Most recently, Sen. Mitchell has led Major League Baseball's investigation into potential usage of anabolic steroids and human growth hormones by its players. The full report was released on Dec. 17, 2007.
Sen. Mitchell is the author of four books: "Men of Zeal," co-authored with his colleague, then-Sen. William S. Cohen, on the Iran-Contra investigation; "World on Fire," about the threat of the greenhouse effect and recommending steps to curb it; "Not For America Alone: The Triumph of Democracy and The Fall of Communism"; and "Making Peace," an account of his experiences in Northern Ireland.
Dick Carozza is editor of Fraud Magazine. His e-mail address is: dcarozza@ACFE.com.
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